Shedding Lies: Overcoming Childhood Trauma with Dr. Anne Katona Linn l S1E032

Linda Orsini: 00:00:08

Hello and welcome to a call for love. I believe the most powerful gift you can offer yourself is to give and receive love more freely. I'm your host Linda Orisni meditation guidance spiritual coach. Everyone has the desire to be seen, heard, respected and loved. The journey to becoming more connected to your greater purpose lies within the ability to live from the deep source of love within you. Let's begin.

Linda Orsini: 00:00:39

Welcome to Dr. Anne Katona Linn. And she's here and I'm going to fight you are going to find this very interesting a call for love listeners. Because I am she's an educational psychologist. And after myself being in the education field for over 30 years, I know that we're going to dive into so many great topics. Her main goal and direction in life is a consultant coach, author and speaker and parent community leaders to build Safe Supportive Schools. While we all want that don't wait. Until authentic engagement. She helps communities unite to prevent problem behaviors, crisis's and approve school cultures. She's the author of the book, shedding lies, sharing her journey overcoming childhood traumas. And not only has she overcome these childhood traumas, but she's an advocate for all youth, adults with mental health and substance use disorders. So you come with such a wealth of information, I can't wait to begin this conversation and really hear about your journey, and about the message behind shedding lies.

Dr. Anne Katona Linn: 00:01:55

Thanks so much for having me, Linda, I'm excited to be here too. So just to kind of again, so many times, a lot of us have stories that lead us into the work that we do. So in my previous life, I was a special education teacher and a board certified behavior analyst. And I've worked with, mostly with kids with autism and kids with behavior problems. And I really got into that field. Because I was trying to figure myself out, not specifically in the autism, but just, I had some of my own things that happen, you know that that made me think that there was something wrong with me. And so that's kind of why I got into the field. So, and that's where my book and my work comes from. So I'll kind of share a little bit of that. So I am the youngest of seven, good old Catholic family, big Catholic family. I, my parents were really kind of done when they they had me, they had six kids and eight years. And I'm eight years younger than the youngest. And they were busy at the time, you know, my mom was working full time, my dad was working full time. My older siblings are watching me, they didn't really, you know, I can only imagine that a teenager watching an infant would be not the most fun thing to be doing. So, you know, they had to kind of rotate around with me. And I didn't really have a heavy bond with any one of them. Though, I definitely had good relationships with all of them. And so when I was four years old, we were getting ready to go to my see my sister in nursing school dropping something off for her in a car, and I'm 57 years old. Now I'm aging myself. And this is 53 years ago that I remember everything in detail. So we're in the car, Garbage Truck law stuff on the side of the road. I was you know, at the time, we didn't have car seats we didn't have, we didn't have seat belts in cars, we had bench seats. And it was really, you know, we didn't have all those safety things that we have in place now. So, again, I remember this, there was a thunderstorm, I was afraid and went and sat on my mom's lap. And there was a lot of traffic. We ended up hitting into the back of a car in front of us, I went face first through the windshield. So I had lots of scars all over my face pretty extensive 77 stitches. I remember them taking me to the hospital, pulling my family away. And then I was in the hospital for a week. They were only allowed to visit during visiting hours. And that was two hours a day. And they would distract us with this little red wagon. So they they further traumatized us in the hospital. And then when I got home, we didn't talk about things we just kind of like okay, if there's nothing outwardly that we're seeing, let's ignore it and it'll be fine. Probably nothing's, you know, everything's gonna be fine. We think of kids as yes, they're resilient. And also we have to remember though, that our bodies and our brains actually store trauma, if it's not released if it's not processed. So for me, I I ended up with full blown PTSD, and thunderstorms and riding in a car that I didn't feel it with, you know, whoever the person was driving, if I didn't feel safe with them, those were some of my triggers. And so I put on a lot of kind of brave faces. And I, I was always trying to prove myself because I felt like something was wrong with me. So I've spent a good part of my childhood and adulthood, trying to prove myself which is, you know, again, I've got all these degrees and always learning, though, luckily, I benefited from all of those things. I started drinking at around the age of 14. And it's very socially acceptable. So I didn't think you know, anything and the panic attacks that I was having previously stopped. And I was like, oh, cool, I'm getting over this PTSD thing. And I knew that's what it was, even though it was 90 in the 80s, that they didn't really talk about PTSD with people other than more veterans. So this was kind of early on. So great, living my life, I was the secretary of the class, I was bald, the student council, I was smart, academically dated the captain of the football team, Princess of the prom, like all these kinds of things. And yet, I was suffering inside that nobody really saw. And I didn't know it at the time, either. That's the thing, I thought, I'm fine. Then in my early 20s, you know, I really had, I was lacking self esteem, I didn't, I wasn't in great relationships. Or I didn't know how to really have boundaries for myself, to be able to take care of myself, and make sure that I was looking out for my own best interest. I didn't know how to do that. So in my early 20s, I was sexually assaulted by a guy that I had previously dated. And the only reason that, you know, again, that time date rape wasn't really something that we talked about a little bit, but again, not much, you know, we're still in this metoo movement, you know, we're now things are just coming out. And it's still a struggle. And so, at that time, I went to counseling afterwards. You know, he broken up broken in my apartment, he came to my apartment, and I was sleeping. So that was kind of like that. I kept saying, no, no, and you know, that it hit me like two days later, like, Oh, my goodness, I was raised. It literally just kind of, I had, I was triggered. I went to counseling, and I said, you know, I, I had PTSD when I was a kid, but I got over it, you know, it's like, no big deal. Well, it continued, you know, again, I just was not in good relationships. And, you know, just didn't pick guys that were really good for me. And then in my early 30s, I decided to make some changes with my life, went to a singles retreat, and really had kind of a spiritual awakening and decided I was going to make some other changes became celibate again, and I actually stopped drinking to kind of see out of curiosity, how I would do. And I started having panic attacks again. And I was like, What the heck is this. And so God clearly said to me, like, you've tried to do this on your own. Now it's time to heal with my help, and professional help. So this was a time in my career that I was actually getting my math, I was working with kids with behavior problems. And I loved working with them, and I was naturally good at it. So I was pursuing my master's. So everything was all coming together. And my master's was in special education. And it was a very behavioral based program. And I just, I loved it, I was naturally good at it. So I gravitated towards that. And, you know, at the same time, the parallel was that my life, I was going through therapy, and I got a medication and got some diagnoses of anxiety at the time. He was later diagnosed with PTSD, ADHD, social anxiety, generalized anxiety, and also to autoimmune diseases. So all of these things kind of happen. At the same time, though, it was kind of perfect timing, because I was getting stronger to be able to deal with them. And I wasn't looking at myself, like there's something wrong with me, it was the shift to what happened to me. So that then led me into the career path that I've been doing the last really 20 years, you know, I taught and then because I was, you know, I was kind of just naturally good in many of the things and actually, I had bosses were asking me to do trainings. I ended up starting to do training and coaching and love that, because I saw that so many of the adults really didn't have a whole lot of the skills and that I wanted to help them if I was going to help the kids be more successful the kids like me, I needed to help the adults because they often you know, we often get into the field because We've had our own stories. So that's kind of what led me to where I am. Just like I said, what I've been doing last 20 years. That is

Linda Orsini: 00:10:09

some story. I feel like it's a journey. And you know, a low, it's not something that we want, but there's always a gift in the crisis. And I can really relate to how the your trauma is just another nail in the fence. Right? It's just another thing that you had to overcome. Yeah,

Dr. Anne Katona Linn: 00:10:34

yep, adverse childhood experiences. I actually had an rheumatology appointment this morning. And I gave my book to my doctor, and we were talking about it. And she still, she knows a little bit about it, but so many doctors don't have any idea what childhood adversity does to our physical bodies. You know, it puts us at risk of so many health issues. So you know, I'm like, all give my doctors books, because I'm like, here, you need to learn this. And I talk about it. And I'm like, go, you know, Nadine Burke Harris does a great video. So I'm like, go ahead, and, you know, do that, go watch it, she talks about childhood, adverse childhood experiences, a study that was done in 1998, really kind of helped me connect the dots. So it was, again, all of this, it was like, perfect timing for me to take this information and run with it. And, you know, luckily, like, Thank God, it's been, I've been able to do that. So

Linda Orsini: 00:11:36

I have a question for you, you know, as you're saying, This are all autoimmune diseases, a result from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder from childhood.

Dr. Anne Katona Linn: 00:11:47

Now, so autoimmune diseases have a genetic factor. And they're often triggered by an environmental, some some kind of environmental trigger, trauma can be a trigger for the genetic, you have the genetic, so you already have the genetic markers, and a trauma can trigger it. So this is a lot of people talk about, like vaccines, there could be it's not the vaccine itself, the person could have an allergy to maybe a preservative in the vaccine, that may trigger something. But, you know, again, it's not that that's causing it, it's just that are all of us are different. So all of us have different triggers, and trauma, you know, it depends on the nature of the trauma, the severity, you know, but there's no right or wrong to say, well, this is this is what should should be a trigger. That's nothing. Why was that a trigger for you? Trauma is very personal. We all have our own experiences and our traumas or our traumas. So and

Linda Orsini: 00:12:53

there's big and small traumas. But if we don't move through the experience, then they're held in our body, no matter the size, right? Back when, and when you were a little child, because as I, as I told you, I was a school teacher, you know, like, I would see a child in the hall, just sobbing, just swapping their little heart out from something that and we cannot judge as adults, the trauma, it is for that child. For them. It is their world. And I always really honored the little kids feeling. Even if they're a little child there, there's still a soul in this little body. And they were moving through a very hard experience. And if they couldn't, then it would get stuck. And hence trauma. And of course, it's big or little. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it's very fascinating. And I think that the work with, you know, children, and the youth is so prevalent now, because they are going to be the adults of the future. And of course, we love them and we want to do the best we can but it that's really fascinating about how autoimmune disease actually comes into being.

Dr. Anne Katona Linn: 00:14:12

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's, you know, again, I know, for me, I really have had to educate myself and, and become an advocate for myself, because a lot of times, you know, again, doctors are not trained in a lot of these things. Like I said, all my doctors now, very good doctors, they just don't have, they don't get the training, they don't get the, you know, they don't have that understanding. And to me, you know, we need to be educating doctors, we need to be educating everyone about what trauma is and how it impacts us, and how it impacts larger societies. Because, you know, like, during COVID, I just kept on you know, on everything that's happened, you know, with George Floyd and everything, and you know, people just getting angry, and I said, I Skip Santa has been like everybody's responding out of their own trauma just left and right, you know, and they're not recognizing it. So they're just reacting. Whereas if we actually pause and stop and kind of understand ourselves, we're actually going to be more understanding of other people. But we can't, we can only put, you know, we can only change your own behavior. And we have to kind of put our own oxygen masks first, so that we could make sure we're able to take care of ourselves, and then we can do something to help others.

Linda Orsini: 00:15:34

I know what you're saying. And it's very, very challenging. I believe that we can have kind of three traumas, ancestral, past lifetimes and childhood for me, this is what resonates. And sometimes a pain point that comes in me. i Some I know it's not even from this lifetime. But I just really need to hold space for it, and move through that energy. That's why somatic work, and yoga for me has been so healing, because I move it through my body in and out. But can you suggest to those of us a call for love listeners or adults, how they can move through their process? First, the oxygen mask in order to help their children, their grandchildren, their nieces and nephews? So how we can move through this cycle? To stop perpetuating trauma?

Dr. Anne Katona Linn: 00:16:32

Yeah, yeah. And I'm so happy, you brought up the word, you know, somatic work, that's a big piece of what I've done. Over the years, I've done a variety of things, really, connecting the brain, you know, the the mind, soul, body, heart, everything that we connect it all. And very holistic, somatic work is huge, because what happens in trauma is that we disconnect from our bodies. So somatic works helps to bring us back to being in our bodies, experiencing our bodies and the senses around us, we get an autopilot. And trauma does you disconnect, you know, you kind of almost put yourself in silos, and you're not even aware of how you're reacting. So we may see people who've been through trauma, where anger is more comfortable for them. So they'd rather express anger towards others, or even themselves. And yet, it's everyone's like, what is going on, we have no idea what's going on. But when we recognize that trauma is not what happened to us, it's what's it's not what's wrong with us, it's what happened to us, it makes it easier for us to understand why we do some of the things and give ourselves grace. So that's kind of we have to forgive ourselves. One of the things that I do in the book is I do kind of a shifting from a fixed mindset to a growth mindset. And I do a strategy, that it's, I say, I forgive myself for buying into the lie, you know, whatever the lie was for that chapter. And so when being, I'm not worthy. The truth is, my family loved me, I was worthy to fight for my family was going by the hospital policy, and they didn't even know that they should have fought or, you know, that's, that just wasn't what we did. And so, you know, again, I can't blame them. It's just that I have to recognize if it helps me to have empathy for them. So that's kind of one of the first things is recognizing that we have been through trauma and that, you know, that, but that may not happen right away, we can't have empathy for others, until we can really have empathy for ourselves, and forgive ourselves for everything that we've been through. And recognizing it's not about what's wrong with us. But what happened to us. And then, the other piece is that, you know, again, for families, in our family, we've had a lot of it well, and speaking of families, and you kind of talked about the past lives, and trauma gets transferred through our genetics. So we may have great our ancestors have had trauma. And if that is not released or processed, it can then be stored in us. So Holocaust is an example. They have showed research where they had symptoms of PTSD and experiencing the Holocaust, but they never actually experienced the grandkids of people who were in the Holocaust costs. So there's lots of research around it. And that we have to make sure that no matter what, we're creating safe spaces for people, just letting people know that they're safe. And, you know, again, the first thing is that we have to do that for ourselves. Because no matter you know, the adults can be all really we have lots of good intentions. But unless we're able to manage our own emotions, we're not going to be able to help our kids. So adult Recognizing our emotions, giving ourselves grace, learning how to, you know, calm ourselves and calm our nervous systems, somatic works help with calming your nervous system so that you can then respond rather than react to a situation.

Linda Orsini: 00:20:16

I feel like there's two layers here, I feel through my work with young children. I know that you know, the formative years up to seven years old. They take everything as the truth as reality, when they don't have the the mindful thought to know that it's circumstances. So as you said, when your parents didn't visit you, you weren't able to distinguish that there were hospital rules, you took it as the truth, and no one came to visit me. I'm not loved. I'm not cared for. I'm not worthy. I'm not enough. And we all have that. Because it's impossible to live through the life without making those mistakes as an adult. I mean, I just think as a parent, as a teacher, in any case, so those are probably things that are going to happen with us. So we have this childhood trauma that we really can avoid in one way or another. And to know that to move through it, I like, like Michael singer says, it's like a thorn in our side, we put this little bubble around it to protect it. But to feel it to be with it takes so much courage, so much courage, that helps

Dr. Anne Katona Linn: 00:21:40

to, yes, you need help.

Linda Orsini: 00:21:43

That's right, of course, because you have to feel safe. Yep. And sometimes you have to do those baby steps, correct?

Dr. Anne Katona Linn: 00:21:50

Yeah, absolutely. And have somebody else who is kind of, again, that professional to guide you along the way, as well. Like to let you know, this is what happened to you, or this is normal. You're you're responding in a way that is expected. You know, we don't always know that. So

Linda Orsini: 00:22:06

what would be your suggestion to help people move through life trauma, past life, and ancestral? Like, there's so many traumas, so maybe just in the simplest, most precise essence that you can share?

Dr. Anne Katona Linn: 00:22:22

Yeah, yeah. You know, again, that is that shift of the mindset from what's wrong with me to what happened to me, like, that's the first thing, because that mindset then opened me up to feeling safe to then talk to somebody, you know, in. So getting professional counseling, and I recommend, identify somebody who is kind of has expertise in trauma. And if you don't feel comfortable with people, look for someone else, find somebody else, there's a lot more access, virtually, that I think is really powerful. So find somebody and identify your support system, who are the people that you feel safe talking to, outside of counseling, you know, and and figure out what you need to make sure that you feel safe. But that's, that's kind of the core is that you have to feel safe. Number one, before anything else can happen. Absolutely yourself. So yeah,

Linda Orsini: 00:23:23

absolutely. I, I love this what is wrong with me to what happened to me? And we take what happens to us personally, and as a truth when it's not the truth. Yeah,

Dr. Anne Katona Linn: 00:23:38

exactly. We have to break those lies and and tell ourselves the real truth and find out what that is

Linda Orsini: 00:23:44

shedding lies, right. So where can people find you? I'm, I'm guessing shedding lies is everywhere.

Dr. Anne Katona Linn: 00:23:52

It's it's on Amazon right now. I've been just came out in March. So I've been really pushing it on Amazon. I'm doing lots of book signings, and I'm working, I'm doing a resilience, circle, monthly resilience circle. So they could go to my website, Katonah, Lynn consulting.com. And, also, yes, you can find me on Amazon. And I'm also in social media, Twitter, Facebook. I'm also an Instagram. Those are the main places that you could find me. And I've been doing lots of podcasts. I have lots of other podcasts as well, that I've been posting on my website. And so yeah, but I have resilience, resilient circle, a building resilience circle that is going to be starting in September, mindfully that will be will come together and we'll have kind of discussions on topics.

Linda Orsini: 00:24:45

Beautiful. Yeah, we will put all those links in the show notes. Thank you. Thank you so much for joining. It was actually really great conversation and I really appreciate bringing to awareness, this so that we can heal it and we can move forward. It's really, really important message that you're sharing and thank you for the work that you do.

Dr. Anne Katona Linn: 00:25:05

Thank you so much. I appreciate it.